tv MSNBC Live With Hallie Jackson MSNBC July 20, 2017 7:00am-8:00am PDT
he says he now regrets making jeff sessions his ag. that's a huge headline in washington. so is this. senator john mccain in the fight for his life. one thing bringing together democrats and republican here on capitol hill. one of the senator's colleagues will be joining us life, health committee member republican bill cassidy of louisiana, talking about where this health care fight goes next. out west, you know it's decision day for o.j. simpson. in three hours, set to find out if he walks free or stays in prison without parole. as you can imagine, we are buckled up and ready to go. a team here in place. jacob rascon, chris jansing and many more. we'll start with that interview between president trump and "the new york times." jeff sessions, bob mueller, russia. three reporters, including peter baker, joining us in one minute, sat with us for almost an hour. we want you to listen for yourselves what
the president had to say. roll the tape.
>> sessions gets the job. right after he gets the job he recuses himself. >> was that a mistake? >> well, sessions should have never recused himself and if he was going to recuse himself, he should have told me before he took the job and i would have picked somebody else. >> he gave you no heads up at all? >> zero. so, jeff sessions takes the job, gets into the job, recuses himself which frankly is very unfair to the president. how do you take a job and then recuse yourself? had he done that before the job i would have said thank you, jeff, but i can't take you. it's extremely unfair, and that's a mild word, to the president. so he recuses himself. i then end up with a second man, who's a deputy.
>> mueller was looking at your
finances and your family finances, unrelated to russia, is that a red line? >> would that be a breach of what his actual charge is? >> i would say, yeah. i would say yes. by bah, i would say i don't -- i mean it's possible there's a condo or something i sell a lot of condo units. somebody from russia buys a condo. who knows? i don't make money from russia. they say i own buildings in russia. i don't. they say i made money from russia. i don't. it's not my thing. i don't. i don't do
that. over the years i've looked at maybe doing a deal in russia but i never did one. other than i held the miss universe pageant there eight, nine years ago.
she was sitting next to putin and somebody else. that's the way it is. so the meal is going and toward zers certify i went down to say hello to melania and while i was there i said hello to putin. really, pleasantries more than anything else. it was not a long conversation but could be 15 minutes. just talked about things. actually it was very interesting. we talked about adoption. >> you did? >> yeah. it was interesting. that was part of a conversation that don had with the meeting that i said most of the people -- when they say by the way we have information on your opponent, i think most politicians -- i was just with a
lot of people. they said who wouldn't have taken a meeting like that? i just heard it was an e-mail requesting a meeting or something, you know, requesting a meeting that they have information on hillary clinton and i said, i mean, that's standard political stuff. >> did you know at the time that
they had the meeting? >> no, i didn't know anything about it. but it must have been a very important -- must have been a very unimportant meeting because i never heard about it. >> no one told you a word? >> no, nobody told me. it sounded like a very unimportant meeting. >> the day you clinched the nomination with new jersey and california, the primary, you give a speech that night, saying you're going to give a speech about hillary clinton's corrupt dealings with russia and other countries and that comes three hours after don junior -- >> you know i made -- >>
people wondered about the timing. >> there is a lot there, to say the least. joining me to talk about it, chief correspondent for "the new york times" and political analyst peter baker. we were listening to you and your colleagues, asking the president questions. walk us through. how did the president seem to you? his mood as he sort of watches now health care fall apart at this point. >> yeah. he had just come from lunch with
republican senators in which he seemed to be urging them to revive a bill in which everybody is thinks it's dead. he was in a very good mood. seemed relaxed, confident. not at all the sort of fiery fellow that you often see on television. much more conversational. but, as you see, you heard from the audiotape once you get into the details about russia and so forth, he has got some pretty sharp things to say. >> we had known that he wasn't thrilled with jeff sessions. that reporting had come out from our network, your paper, from others weeks ago, right? but did it surprise you that he was so tough on sessions, that he said literally he would not have hired him, had he known that sessions would have recused himself? >> not surprising that he thinks this. it's surprising that he would say it out loud. a lot of presidents feel frustrated with their attorney swren or cabinet secretaries but are good about papering over those differences in public at
least. at least until there's a change in personnel. he went straight there and didn't shy away from letting us know exactly how he feels. it's interesting, of course, because this is months later. the recusal happened way back at the beginning of the administration. still a very raw subject for president trump. he has not gotten over it and believes strongly, i think, that jeff sessions did not serve his interests, the president's interests. of course, that's not exactly the job of the attorney general. it says something about president trump's view of this investigatio investigation. >> something we talked about for quite a while. he has had a conversation with our executive editor and so out of these conversations, you know, we decided that -- he agreed to see us and we were very happy, of course, to have the opportunity to ask him some of these questions. >> peter, i want to bring in chris vansing now as we keep an
eye on that news conference that jeff sessions is currently holding over at the department of justice. talk about timing here, right? there he is, along with rod rosenstein behind him. this was a long planned news conference, obviously taking on some new significance now in light of that interview that peter just conducted. we are keeping an eye on this, by the way. if and when he begins to talk about the president we'll bring it to you live. no response on this from the department of justice so far, huh? >> reporter: i think it will be a different kind of situation from someone who is as disciplined as jeff sessions who understands the way washington works and also, hallie, understands the power of words and how they can come back to you. i would not expect him to have some sort of full-throated defense against the president. but, you know, to the point you and peter were talking about, jeff sessions is somebody who we should remember, just last month, we learn ed offered his resignation. he wanted the president to know that he needed to be able to do his job and he needed to be able
to do his job independently. and it was one of the times over the course of these six months of this presidency where people have raised question if he understands what the role is of people like the fbi director and of the attorney general. i mean, the other thing is, throughout the course of the campaign, we heard from a lot of trump supporters about how loyal he is. what we've also learned is he expects loyalty. he expects complete and total loyalty. clearly, not only has time started to heal this breach where he says to peter baker and his colleagues, it was extremely or very unfair to the president, but it seems that as the pressure from this russia investigation is ramping up, it's made it all the worse for him and his feelings against jeff sessions, one of his earliest and most ardent supporters, hallie. >> talk about the department of justice and the fbi director. senate judiciary committee has unanimously report ed out
christopher re -- wray's nomination. this is president trump, live look at his motorcade pulling up for what we are told will be a broad strokes discussion with defense secretary mattis. i am being told by a senior administration source as well that secretary mnuchin is there along with secretary of state rex tillerson. there is a representative from the national security can council although it's not h.r. mcmaster, reportedly out of town for a couple of days. you see the president there. this will be a big look, overall look at the geopolitical issues facing the country. this is not that isis review we had been waiting for, that we are still waiting for. no timeline on that, as you see the president walking up the steps there into the pentagon. this should last roughly 90 minutes. you see the president there. peter baker, obviously, the president has a lot going on. he has got issues of national security, which are important to
him. and what's interesting about these remarks about attorney general jeff sessions is the personal versus the policy. on a personal level the president is clearly upset with jeff sessions. but on a policy perspective, they're right in line when it comes to where they are on immigration, sanctuary cities, border control, for example. does he reconcile those two things or do they just stay separate? >> that's the thing, right? exactly. jeff sessions is very in tune with the president on some of these big, big polishes. you mentioned a few, obviously, criminal sentencing is another area. so it would be -- you know, it's interesting that this one part of the job, obviously, has remained as a sore point. it doesn't mean that the president wants him to go. he hasn't said that to us. it would be over interpreting to say that. as you know, this president from time to time sort of slaps down people around him. >> it's a theme. >> yeah, it's a theme and
doesn't necessarily -- look what happened to steve bannon a few months ago, even reince priebus again and again and again. we don't know what jeff sessions' future is at this point. he did offer that resignation, you did point out. i don't know that he will do that again, given this situation. doesn't mean it will be changed necessarily. >> reporter for "the wall street journal" and white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan lemir, who will be with us all morning long. pick up where peter left off here. the president did not say and now i'm going to fire jeff sessions. that never happened. it's a fair question to look at given those comments. how do you see this relationship playing out, laura? >> obviously it injects an extraordinary note of tension into their relationship. nobody likes to have their boss criticize them to "the new york times." i do think that jeff sessions is in the job because he believes in what he's doing. he gave up, you noerks an extraordinary position in the senate, the ability to try to
drive the agenda there with the republican congress and republican president in order to serve this president. the reason was not so much because of his personal loyalty to donald trump but because of what he thought he could accomplish at the justice department and he wants to do that. >> what is the president's motivation here? his comments on bob mueller, that he would be talking about the prospect of getting rid of bob mueller. is this just more, as peter was saying, venting? >> that's right. we talked to people around the president, his confidants, senior advisers, who were scrambling. >> after the interview dropped. >> having no sense that this was coming -- this doesn't appear to be a strategy to force sessions to resign. something that's been bubbling under the surface for weeks. he has been seething because he didn't tell him in advance that he was going to recuse himself, that he recused himself at all. even though he was one of his
earliest and most ardent supporters, and gave up a cushy -- he was going to have the senate seat as long as he wanted it. and now the president is fuming at him and seemingly everyone involved in the russian investigation. >> for a guy who spends a lot of time bashing the media talking about fake news, why does he keep doing these lengthy interviews? >> he wants his message out. this is not a calculated thing, perhaps. i don't think he shies away from it either. he understood what he's doing, what message he was sending, even as aides may squirm or feel uncomfortable about it. the president has a very, you know, long track record of this kind of thing. he does have a relationship with "the new york times" that goes back decades. it's his hometown paper. he grew up in new york, of course. there's sort of a love/hate
thing there sometimes, and yet i think he understands that talking to the press -- you know, he enjoys talking to the press. i think he enjoyed the interview. i think he enjoys saying what he thinks even if it causes heartburn elsewhere. >> for his aides, yeah. something he does not enjoy is this continued talk about russia. that does not go away, particularly given that we are going to see jared kushner interview bid staffers on the senate intelligence committee. we'll see donald trump jr. potentially and paul manafort, invited to appear before senate judiciary on wednesday. that will dominate headlines next week, obviously. at what point does the president, if he can put that aside, say i'm going to govern now or given the constant discussion, do you think we'll see this continued turmoil? >> it's interesting. he likes a fight. he likes to push back when people push against him. he could have said i'm not going to talk about that. there's an ongoing investigation.
talk to my lawyers of the let's talk about health care, immigration, other things. he happily, you know, went down this path with us. we asked the questions, fair enough. he didn't shut us down. he wanted to answer these questions and talk about it. i think he enjoys it, even at a cost. i'm still pushing on health care, the message is him talking about this investigation, which has been so damaging. so, you know, he's not a new guy on the scene anymore. he understands how this works and chose to do what he did. >> six months into his administration. peter baker, thank you for that perspective. thank you for joining us here. this, of course, is not the only headline washington is watching today. john mccain trying to figure out how to treat this aggressive form of brain cancer. he sat home in arizona recovering from a different surgery after doctors removed a blood clot from above his left eye. that's when they found this
tumor. in the senator's hometown of phoenix, jacob rascon, talk to us about what we know about the diagnosis, any plans on how to fight it, how he might do that? >> reporter: as you said this is where, last friday, he had the surgery to remove the blood clot. subsequent tests revealed gioblastoma, very aggressive and deadly form of brain cancer. the senator and his family are reviewing further treatment options with the mayo clinic care team that may include chemotherapy and radiation. senator's doctor say he is recovering from his surgery amazingly well and his underlying health is excellent. it's important to point out they're talking about the surgery itself, not the cancer. as we said the cancer is deadly and aggressive. the prognosis is not great. median survival age is between 16 months and three years. as his colleague in the senate, senator flake, put it's a tough
diagnosis but even tougher man. shot down over vietnam, prisoner of war, in the senate for 30 years, run for president a couple of times, has dealt with melanoma skin cancer and beat it a few times. his daughter, in a statement, said the most calm and confident person right now among all his family is, of course, him, if you can believe it. so if anybody can can make it, his senate colleagues, those on both sides of the aisle, former president barack obama, everybody, the outpouring of support, all says this is an american hero. if anybody can do it, he can. >> jacob rascon, live for us in phoenix. we talk about reaction from senators. jeff flake was having a conversation with john mccain about health care and sort of at the end almost in passing, and by the way, chemo. that's how jeff flake found out about this. lindsey grahamed with one of our folks over on capitol hill. here is what he had to say, one of the senator's best friends on
capitol hill. >> talked to john twice yesterday. the truth of the matter is that no one saw this diagnosis coming. you know, i started getting a little emotional on the phone. i can't think of anything i've done since 1999 politically, in many ways personally, that was worth doing without john. >> jonathan? >> certainly in a moment where washington has never been more starkly divided among party lines it is nice to see members of both parties rallying around senator mccain. folks who even disagree with his politics recognize he's an american hero, this is a serious situation and they're rooting for him. >> it's interesting. mccain has been a thorn in both parties' sides over the years. people have been annoyed with him. there's a sense when you talk about politics and people being insincere, that's never been applied to john mccain. people who are out for themselves they're never been applied to him. his 2008 presidential campaign,
i covered that and it was fascinating to see him on the road and see how he evolved over that time. of course, that very famous moment in minnesota when he shut down one of his supporters, who was talking -- insulting barack obama, calling him an arab, saying he couldn't be trusted and mccain, of course, shutting that down. a classic moment for him. so that won him an enormous amount of goodwill. that said, brain cancer doesn't really care if you're a good guy. brain cancer doesn't really care if you're an american hero. so, i think this is a very disturbing development. >> and it's not clear when senator mccain will be coming back to the senate. it doesn't mean what his absence means for the health care bill, that republicans are hustling to pass. we'll keep up that conversation after the break. before we do, i want to show you the department of justice, robert patterson speaking. that's attorney general jeff sessions behind him. so far, no comments on that explosive "new york times" interview we've been discussing. we're keeping an eye on this live. we'll bring it to you if any news develops.
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we have a little bit of news to share with you that happened during that commercial break. the treasury department is now fining exxonmobil $2 million, a $2 million fine for violating russian sanctions. do you know what he it happened? when secretary of state rex tillerson was then the ceo of exxonmobil. some potentially significant news here coming out. we'll follow that and bring you
any updates as we get t. we're also following what's happening over on capitol hill. they will vote on something. we just don't know what that something will be. it could be a bill to repeal obamacare, replace later, could be a bill to do both at the same time. it could be that there's not enough support to debate either of those in the first place. here is what senators tried to hash out in a late-night talk. >> still working at it. everybody is throwing out ideas. >> we're going to keep talking as a conference until we reach an agreement. >> lengthy, productive discussions on areas of agreement and areas we still have work to do. >> msnbc's garret haike has been on capitol hill, as usual. let's talk about movement of the senators and is there something they can get done? >> reporter: the sound you played from the meeting last night, i was there. srns came out said it's great. we're having productive
conversations, people are talking about ideas but no single senator could point to any specific breakthrough on any of the major issues that hung them up. 15, 20 senators were in this meeting for about three hours, you did not have susan collins or rand paul, two people who have been most against moving forward on the repeal and replace simultaneously. if they push for repeal now and replace later, it has a host of problems. more senators say they oppose that. it looks a lot like the 2015 score, last time they tried to do it. it's disastrous right upfront. 17, 18 million people, less people covered in the first year. big political problems. while they are projecting confidence nobody has come out and said we have found the key to unlock this vote. >> garrett, you talk about that meeting last night, it's also where senators found out about john mccain's brain cancer. i want to talk to you about that
in a second. first, let's get over to the
department of justice. jeff sessions is now speaking. let's listen in, as he takes some questions. >> we, in this department of justice, will continue every single day to work hard, to serve the national interests and we wholeheartedly join in the priorities that president trump gave us several directives. one is to dismantle internet transnational criminal organizations. that's what we're announcing today, a dismantling of the largest dark website in the world, by far. i congratulate our people for that. i have the honor of serving as attorney general. it's something that goes beyond any thought i would have ever had for myself. we love this job. we love this department and i plan to continue to do so as long as that is appropriate. >> attorney general sessions,
how do you feel you can effectively serve from here on out if you don't have the confidence of the president? >> we are serving right now. the work we're doing today is the kind of work we intend to continue. just last week, we announced the largest health caretakedown e t the united states. we had the leaders in my office yesterday to talk about unified efforts to improve our crime fighting with state and local officials. i'm totally confident that we can continue to run this office in an effective way. i really would like for you to focus now on the work of the individuals behind me, that have helped put this case together so that we celebrate and affirm the work that they have done so that we can learn from it and get
even better in the future. >> dispute rosenstein, the president told "the new york
times" yesterday that the fact you're from baltimore concerns him since there aren't many republicans from that city. is that a valid concern in your view? what do you make of that criticism? >> as the attorney general said we're working here every day to advance the priorities of the justice department. i was proud to work here today, yesterday and will be proud to work here tomorrow. as the attorney general said we're happy to answer any questions about this case. it's a very important case and a lot of folks assisted in that investigation. that's all i'm going to talk about today. >>
questions about alphabet? all right. thank you. >> as somebody yells a question about whether or not jeff sessions is concerned he will be viewed as a zombie attorney general, you heard brief q & a, all questions relating to not
what that news conference was about, but instead the president's comments in "the new york times" about his attorney general and deputy attorney general as well. you heard jeff sessions give that full-throated defense saying he's here, he's serving, does not feel distracted, in essence, that he loves his job and the department and will continue to serve in that capacity. i want to bring back in our panel, jonathan lemir as well and lawyera jeff sessions is a loyal soldier. he is continuing to do what he has done this entire campaign, not talking about serving the constitution but loyalty to the president and serving in that role. >> and loyalty to their agenda, their shared agenda. i have to believe he is extraordinarily frustrated, though, to the extent that what the president said distracts from that agenda. nobody asked any questions about the subject of that news conference. >> they wanted questions on that. they wanted to pivot that. >> that's all they wanted to talk about. this is clearly a distraction.
clearly, the attorney general would like to continue in the job, if he can. >> the attorney general is far too careful of a politician to inflame the situation today. >> in particular, inflame the president. >> yes. and by that, much like sometimes the white house press secretary, the jeff session audience was the audience of one, with the president watching every word he's saying and carefully deciding how he wanted to respond to this interview from yesterday. does that change the pressure on sessions? can he effectively hold this position going forward? certainly there will be a belief in washington that he will be compromised and may, indeed, need to step down. >> you may have noticed that jonathan swan of axios snuck on to our set to talk about health care. first, we have to talk about the attorney general taking questions not related to anything at all that they wanted to talk about, alphabet. said he will ten as attorney
general. >> their relationship is irreparably broken. this will never get back to what it was. there's a separate question. trump has expressed regret privately. >> and now publicly. >> now publicly. privately he has mused i could have made him secretary of homeland security and that's no slight on general kelly. he's just sort of privately mused about other things he could have given to sessions. but i never heard from anyone -- it's possible he has. none of my sources have heard trump actually say i want him to step down. >> and did not go that far in the "new york times" interview. >> right. >> we want to play a little bit of that to remind you how we got to this point at 10:30 eastern, 7:30 pacific. >> sessions gets the job. right after he gets the job, he recuses himself. >> was that a mistake? >> well, sessions should have never recused himself.
and he was would -- if he was going to recuse himself, he should have told me before he took the job and i would have picked somebody else. >> and that is the public explanation of what folks covering the white house have been hearing privately from president's advisers and people close to the administration, that the president was not happy with jeff sessions. it's remarkable when you listen to him speak there. what else stood out to you in that news conference? to remind you, jeff sessions asked twice about it and rod rosenstein, asked about it, said i'm here to serve, to continue to implement the president's agenda. i'm not going anywhere. rod rosenstein said the same. and asked about that question, he's from baltimore and not too many republicans from bullet more, that rosenstein is too slanted to serve in that role. >> public officials sticking to the script, saying what they're supposed to say and not, as jonathan said, inflaming the
situation. we know that president trump does not play by those rules. he says what he thinks and and if it's not particularly helpful to his agenda, so be it. we've seen this time and time again on twitter and in interviews where he says what's on his mind. in this news conference today, what we really saw was much more of a traditional political stance. >> sure. what would you have asked sessions if you were there? >> did you think about resigning? >> looks like he wants to stay on the job. >> i would like to know. >> the sessions piece, smaller part of a bigger puzzle. the idea that russia is weighing on this president all the time. his lawyers saying don't talk about it. >> and goes out and talks about it. >> his advisers saying don't talk about it. >> he goes out and talk about it. >> he can't help but talk about it. he is fixated on this topic. he believes it's a ploy to
discredit his presidency, the suggestion that russia was involved, contacts with russia make him an illegitimate commander in chief. he can't let it go. he interrupts mings about other top beings to talk about it. i'm not surprised at all it spilled out in this interview. >> do you think that this is going to -- you saw from jeff sessions a continued focus on the agenda, what they're there to do. what you've been seeing from the president, jonathan, is him not talking staiing on his agenda. this is made in america week and he didn't talk about that in his interview with the "new york times." how does it impede possibly what the doj is trying to do with jeff sessions? >> it impedes both. he was there, had just come out of launch with republicans on health care, the most important thing on the agenda right now. there's a big question of whether it can get done. yesterday the president tried to
revive it, inject new life. he may have injected a little new life into that subject. >> jeff sessions, attorney general, talking about this and not their policies. >> he might have succeeded in getting more on health care if he -- >> i totally disagree. yes, health care is screwed. it's in all sorts of possible. it doesn't impede the doj. jeff sessions is getting a heck of a lot done at doj. the good government types would probably prefer it's a very close, cozy relationship between sessions and trump because then they could make all sorts of inferences about it. bit of tension between the ag and the president is not necessarily the worst thing in the word. >> how often do you think they talk? >> truly it's so poisonous between them. it's really deteriorated to the point of like trump -- whenever he thinks of sessions, top line association is that's the weak guy who threw me under the bus and caused all these problems for me. >> the association is no longer that's the first senator who
came out and backed me when nobody else would. >> correct. >> jonathan swan for a little bit of an impromptu discussion. thank you very much. another big headline, one of many we're following today. o.j. simpson. today is the day he's making his case to the parole board on why he should be a free man. we're headed live to the prison where simpson has been the last nine years. details on what we expect to happen today next. only invisalign® clear aligners are made with smarttrack® material to precisely move your teeth to your best smile. see how invisalign® treatment can shape your smile up to 50% faster today at invisalign.com there are the wildcats 'til we die weekenders. the watch me let if fly. this i gotta try weekenders. then we've got the bendy... ... spendy weekenders. the tranquility awaits. hanging with our mates weekenders
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one of america's most infamous inmates on whether he will get paroled. armed robbery involving two sports collectors in vegas. the guy who prosecuted his original murder case said tess a tough day for him. here is christopher darden. >> i like the photographs of o.j. with handcuffs on more than with a golf club in his han.
we have yet to extract from him the punishment that he deserves. >> nbc's katie beck is live outside the lovelock congressional facility. that is where o.j. will be appeari ining via video link. why oncht j. simpson, they think, will actually get parole. >> reporter: that's right. thank you, hallie. that hearing will be taking place, as you said, in carson city, which is about two hours from this facility. now, as you said, o.j. simpson will be here in the facility, video conferenced in before those four commissioners, surrounded by advocates, his sister is supposed to attend, his daughter will be there. his attorney and a close friend of his, to speak on his behalf. he will also be able to speak to the board directly and make his case for why he deserves to be a free man. after they hear from o.j. they'll probably ask him some
questions. these questions are to assess his risk to society. the risk assessment asks things like the age at first arrest, any gang aflfiliations and disciplinary actions he has had in prison. once they take that into account they'll go into closed session and determine whether or not to approve or deny his parole. we are told that they will make that decision fairly quickly, even within an hour, we should know the answer. now the reason why people think it is likely he will be granted parole is because he has already been granted parole on five of his 12 convictions. so, the other seven weren't eligible until now. back in 2013, o.j. was given parole on those other charges and has been deemed a low risk before. folks are thinking he will be deemed a low risk again and his chances are very good that he will get parole. that does not mean he will walk out today. the earliest time he could be released would be october 1st. hallie? >> catie beck in nevada, thank
you. i'm joined by two reporters on the front lines of o.j. simpson's trial. journalist and syndicated columnist diane dimond. cynthia, you were in the courtroom every single day of o.j. simpson's murder trial and covered it for hard copy. give me your expert perspectives here on what you expect to see today. >> well, i think that onc.j. simpson will be approved for parole. of course, i also thought he was going to be convicted for murder in 1995. you can take my prediction for what it's worth. but for all the reasons catie outlined, it is highly likely he will be released october 1st. >> isn't that ironic we would look at him as a sympathetic character at this point, deserving to get out of prison? but he will have served in october his nine years, minimum nine years on his 33-year sentence. i really do think they're going to parole him today in pretty quick fashion. >> he's 70 years old as well.
that will play into it as well. >> carl douglas, as you know, on that '95 dream team, says he thinks o.j. simpson got this lengthy sentence in the armed robbery, in the first place, not because of the robbery but what happened in 1995. what do you think? >> i can't argue with that. i think he's right. o.j. simpson had no police record even after all those trials. he had no police record. he wasn't armed in that room. you know, he was not a guy who should have gotten 33 to 9 for a first offense, in my opinion. >> it's worth noting that his co-conspiratorer er co-conspirators, the guys who did this crime with him are all out of prison. one served two years, rest didn't serve any time at all. o.j. simpson was not the person with the gun although was convicted of the aggravation of having the gun because he was part of the planning to bring the gun. listen, in truth, in truth, this is -- people don't get 33 years
for this kind of an armed robbery. >> had he been joe brown, he never would have gotten that much. >> let's say he is granted parole today, gets out in october, as catie beck reported, a whole new generation of people who were young when the trial happened, have now been reintroduced from fx series, to the documentaries. what is his life going to be like when he gets out? the exposure is going to be intense. will he be out there in the media, keep a low profile? so much has changed. >> i don't want to know how old you were, hallie, when this happened. diane and i want to put that on the side table. and we're still here. there's a difference between fame and infamy. yes, there were these two big very successful, very powerful television series that have come out in the last year. they do not paint o.j. simpson in a positive light. for young people who didn't live through all of this the way we did, you know, he is a guy who
got away with murder. i will point out one thing. at the time of the acquittal in 1995 only 20% of african-americans believed that oncht j. simpson had done it and gotten away with it. latest polling shows well over 50% of african-americans and almost 100% of white americans believe that o.j. simpson got away with murder. i say infamous not famous. >> why do you think people still care about o.j. simpson after all these years? >> we love a fallen celebrity story. he did not go quietly into that dark night. he was out, playing golf. i covered him in california. i was amazed. people were swarming him to get a pukt with him and get his autograph back then. he was basking in the limelight, never mind he had just gone through a double murder trial. during the civil trial, same thing. he was out there, sort of flaunting it. i still cared because i was there the day, the moment that the morgue truck was taking those two bodies away.
and i saw the blood on the sidewalk and the marks in the blood down the sidewalk from the dog's leash. it's something i'll never forget. that's why i still care. >> diane and cynthia, incredible perspective from both of you. thank you. we'll be seeing much more of you throughout the day here on msnbc. i hope you all at home stay with us. we'll have the breaking details from this o.j. simpson hearing live on our air. saturday we've got that special documentary, o.j. simpson, chasing freedom. chief legal correspondent ari melber is doing deep dive into o.j. simpson's life, business partners, friends and even a fellow inmate saturday night 10:00 pm eastern on msnbc. joining me next, one of the senators from the health care lunch yesterday and late-night meeting on capitol hill. we're talking about health care. he says there's momentum where there wasn't any before. why is that?
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replacement later or vote for a bill that does both at the same time. let's ask this guy, bill cassidy of louisiana who was in last night's meeting. thank you for joining us here. >> thank you for having me. >> you seem optimistic now. a little more momentum you think. what changed last night that did not change after a million meetings about this. >> i think the president investing so heavily in getting something done and clear direction he wanted to replace associated with the repeal and making it clear that he wanted the white house to work with us to come to a solution we could all buy into it. in the meeting last night there was -- at some point we've been giving power back to patients and sta and states and moving power out of washington and to your kitchen table. that seems to resonate with republicans. >> he held a lunch with you guys, should he have done more
of that earlier and you wouldn't be in the situation? >> i think the president is being respectful of the process. we know in life sometimes you have to struggle to get to a position where you're willing to make compromises that at the outset you weren't sure you had to make. the timing was perfect, just when things seemed they wouldn't move, he breaks it and going forward with clear direction. he wants replace associated with repeal. >> you have said over the last 48 hours, i'm not quite ready to give up the ghost on repeal and replace. where are you if this bill is repeal and delay? would you support that at this point? >> i would have to see how this is being set up and the president made it clear he wanted repeal and replace. as opposed to answering hypotheticals far afield from where the president says he thinks we should be, i focus on working hard with everyone i can to do something good and good things happen, that's my approach. >> the president did talk about repeal and replace but the president isn't the one brings bills to the floor. mitch mcconnell is.
what is he telling you? >> it's a little dynamic. and frankly the story has changed over the last 24 hours as things have changed. i can't comment on that because we haven't had our group meeting. i would have to wait until then to sort it out. >> will you stay the weekend? are plans for senators to stay around? >> if the leadership ask us to take around, yes. it benefits me tremendously to go back and meet folks back home. i clearly have town hall meetings, you occasionally see them on national news. it helps me to speak to people back home. and if we stay here, i'll stay here. if i get the opportunity to go home and speak to constituents, i find speaking to americans is a good thing. >> we've been talking about the "new york times" interview that came out over the last 12 hours and he talked about health care as well, preexisting are a tough deal because you're seeing from the moment the insurance, you're 21 years old and paying $12 a year for insurance and by the time you're 70, you get a nice plan. here's something you walk up and
say i want my insurance, it's a very tough deal but it is something we're doing a good job of. statement is a little confusing here. i want to know what you make of it and do you think the president gets the intricacies of what you're discussing on the senate floor? >> the president is about broad principles. how i receive his statement. premiums are lower for those who are younger. a person graduating from college doesn't have very much money. as we age, our premiums will rise in price but so does the need for insurance. how do you keep prices low enough for the young person to choose to buy because the president is against individual mandates and provide transition to the older person willing to pay more but if it's too much he cannot pay more? >> your conversations with him, do you think the president understands the political, the policy intricacies of this bill? >> i don't think it's important
for him to understand the policies and intricacies of this bill. it's important to understand the principle, there should be a replace soeshtded with repeal. during the campaign he consistently said he wanted to continue coverage for those who had and cover preexisting conditions and eliminate mandates and lower premiums, those are very good principles. >> senator bill cassidy, thanks for that perspective, i have a feeling this is not the last time we'll speak to you on this. i want to thank our panel, laura mekler and jonathan la mere, quite a morning. we're coming back with today's big picture.
so that's the idea. what do you think? hate to play devil's advocate but... i kind of feel like it's a game changer. i wouldn't go that far. are you there? he's probably on mute. yeah... gary won't like it. why? because he's gary. (phone ringing) what? keep going! yeah... (laughs) (voice on phone) it's not millennial enough. there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you! so we're doing it. yes! start saying yes to your company's best ideas. let us help with money and know-how, so you can get business done. american express open. dad: flash drives? yup. that's dad taking care of business. laptop setup? yup. but who takes care of dad? office depot, office max. this week, all hp ink, buy one get one 30% off. ♪ taking care of business
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back now with today's big picture. the surface of the moon, in 1969, 48 years ago this month, fitting because today nbc news.com is launching the making of an astronaut series. you can check it out at nbc news.com/mach. that does it for us on this very jam packed hour. steph ruhle, i'll toss it to you. >> alley velshi is on assignment today, thursday, july 20th. six months ago today, donald trump became the president of the united states. >> if he was going to recuse himself, he should have told me be